Canada Day! Aw yeah Alpha Flight of Earth-616

Xylon: Welcome back everyone for the second post of our fantastic wonderful spendiferous Blog me and Aris run here. Well if you didn't know It is now Midnight Which makes it officially July 1st which means it's CANADA DAY, so yeah we thought it would be a great idea, to cover everybody's favorite Candian Superteam! ALPHA FLIGHT!!!! (Twilight zone-y sound effect where you here ight ight ight here) So staring of this discussion I'll give Aris the question, where did you first find these characters and what is it that makes them interesting?

Aris: Are they obscure? Lol. Maybe I am old. They were the shizzle when I was younger. Byrne/Claremont introduced them in the X-men and launched them into a great series. These were Byrne's babies. I hate to admit I loved them. And for a while they were a great, somewhat offbeat part of the Marvel U, but early in the 90's they fell apart.

At some point they created some really stupid characters. Some guy with shovel hands and then redesigns for Sasquatch that I can't believe got past smart creative folks in Marvel Editorial.

Then the brief relaunch as part of the Civil War borne Marvel Comics Presents. Vastly inferior to Bryne's vision and uninspired.

You got me ranting. But I loved the original concept and execution and they even had a great two parter during the whole X-men-New Mutants/Asgard Saga. It was wonderful. Drawn by a fave of mine Paul Smith.

The first 24 issues of Byrne's series are legendary. I haven't read them in some time. But full of great drama and action.

Xylon:I don't know i love Byrne's run, but Omega Flight was good Oeming really did something there. It was definitely better than the reboot just three four year's before that. what wasn't good about Omega Flight to you?



Aris: It just felt like it was forced. Byrne was inspired. And also was pretty much at the height of his craft. Nothing about Anything after had that upmh. And the characters themselves were either nor written well. Or. Forced into storylines and to interact with characters in a contrived way.
You can say it's all contrived. Maybe. But it should be written in a way that seems organic. And then the art. Well. Not really the best. As I remember it the coloring was particularly wrong.

Xylon: Haha I liked that book actually. The only thing i really hated was that there seemed to be not enough original alpha flight stories for there to be a changing of the guard. Don't know why they got killed, the characters were just fodder which is sad. Do you think these guys don't get real story because the majority of the market is American?

Aris: No. Not at all. One day we can talk about the sesnibilities of the fanboy. But in general we all just want goo stories with good art. Alpha Flight is kinda like Doom Patrol or Outsiders. You need to create a niche. Bryne did that. You had the Super-hero soap opera of the X-men, off-beat mythology, and weirdness.

I mean think of the original team Aurora, Northstar, Shaman, Sasquatch (I still can't get over that ridiculous redesign), Vindicator, and Snowbird. That was a curious bunch of characters. Throw in Box, Marina, Puck and others and you have a really interesting, diverse, crazy group.

There are definite possibilities. Come to think of it. The guys doing Thrunderbolts now. Parker and Walker could nail Alpha Flight.

Xylon: I think that too, but that's because Jeff Parker is amazing with obscure characters. At the same time I feel like Alpha flight is really intriguing idea especially if they broke from there status as a govt. entity and became free agents. What is your dream team, if Parker was to do this?

Aris: What other team is there? Vindicator, Shaman (Talisman(She takes her dads place-but he's still around)), Northstar and Aurora, Puck, Box (Jeffries), Snowbird, Marina and Sasquatch. And you can work from there.
You have to have a Beta and Gamma Flight and start some huge Mythical Meta arc, while building up the villains and craziness. I don't mind them involved or subsidized by the Government.
I would love to see it drawn by Walker...or Wes Craig. The thing is you can get them involved in the Marvel U, but give them their own voice. Like the X-men or Defenders maybe but different. With me "eh".

Xylon: I don't know i think it would almost be fun to see some people leading the other teams, and have a story where The original shaman gets attacked by a council of dark sorcerers and stuff, there fore bringing an urgency to the story and a reason for them to all be there. I also had a great idea for Beta flight. It would be lead by Batroc's illegitimate French-Canadian son. Haha you know that is comic gold. I would like to see them be more like Canada's Avengers rather Than Canada's super-team i need the best of the best there to be interested. Can you see an ongoing holding water in the industry?

Aris: I am not sure most books can carry an ongoing. I mean sales go south real quick. But that's for another discussion.
Sure. Why not? Follow the Simone/Scott model from Secret Six. Build over time and keep it interesting. I would give it a shot.

LOL. I like the idea about Batroc. Although..he needs his own mini. Want to read my treatment and script to issue one?

Xylon: Yes please because i very much hold his son dear to my heart. :)

Aris: Oh I will.

If you never read the Alpha Flight/X-men Asgardian Saga two parter I highly recommend it. And that goes to every one else to!!!

Xylon: I did read that. I like Asqard stories honestly. Here's a question, how do you feel about Michael Pointer as the Guardian?

Aris: Nope. Don't like that at all. I think there should have been a major storyline with him. It was anti-climatic. It has to be some one essential and related to the other characters. The team family thing.

i don't think you really have to go to the original characters. Just the idea and move from there. Show reverence to what came before, jettison the crap..like the wedge handed dope an...and write good stories. Give it a chance to build and resonate over time.

I think a lot of books start coming out of an event with promise...and then sales peter to around 20k and get bounced. I understand that's the industry now. But with a little investment you go a long way with fans.

Xylon: My greatest story with Alpha Flight would be one of creating a brave new world with alpha flight as the trailblazers. My team would be Batroc II, Hellcat, Shaman(Talisman), Vindicator, Puck( wolverine's illegitimate son from the savage land) and Sasquatch.If I were to have them affiliated with the Canadian govt. then i would make their whole job to run defense of the country. And if they are govt. funded they should have the best tech. The first story could be the resurrection of Marina, i love her.

Aris: And it could be an excuse to have Namor around for a while too!!! good stuff.

I am certain since you brought them up. Alpha Flight will be showing up any moment now...3..2..1..

Xylon: Hahah well any other things you think should be covered, guy?

Aris: I think you have to do the Mythic gods of the Tundra at least once. Maybe show what they did during the God War thing during Secret Invasion and how that changed them. Maybe that's the whole reason they get together to heal those gods who went crazy and are intent on covering the world in white. Then they have a throw down with thh Avengers. Stark needs Jeffries. But he doesn't like that Capitalist s#$^bag. And they have a big fight. And Doom ends up getting away with a weapon or toy of some sort. Wolverine comes to town to see the sights and uncovers some crazy scheme by the some ex-Weapon X guys. I could go on and on. Just have fun. Give them their own voice but cement them in the marvel U.

Xylon: Alright Guys, thanks for reading again. Please Follow Us Tweet Us. Show some love, eh? Due to some Huge Controversy over Wonder Woman's new costume as well as her new retcon(which is **** btws) we will being doing a large discussion on Comics Greatest Woman Join us soon for our next post, this has been, Two Guys Venting On Infinite Earths!

Aris: Take care of your selves , eh?

Talking about Superman....

Xylon: Welcome everyone, men women children, hyper intelligent shades of the color blue. This is The newest thing i'm doing, and it's just two geeks, Me and Aris, having discussions over what exactly it is that makes this industry what it is. And even more importantly, what makes it good. So we might not have the formula down pat for the first couple of posts but here we go this is Two Guys Venting On Infinite Earths!!!!!!!!!! (Twilight Zone sound effect here). Here it goes, we are starting this blog at the same place superhero comic books did, with Superman! Okay so I was figuring that we could just start with a back and forth discussion and see what works and what doesn't. No rules but I'll start with a question. What is it that really makes Superman Superman to you? What sets him apart from the other heroes?

Aris: I think Morrison nailed the point home in Beyond. Supes is the proto-hero. The linchpin of the DCU. That being said he is also the standard barer. So all others look to him as the example. How does that play out in the actual comics?
Not by making him the flawless paladin. But by making everything he does super by default. The threats have to be bigger, stakes higher, villains villainee-er. But he should retain that sense that he is boy from the American heartland who knows he has space born power that he uses to protect the world(s).

Which is why he needs grounded right now. He has been through a physical and spiritual rollercoaster.He needs to reconnect with mankind again. And renew his purpose and resolve.I think JMS doesn't need to look to the Morrison All-Star model (which I love by the way) but the classic Superman model of truth, justice and the American way. Pure Capes action

Xylon: I believe in all honesty that All Star is not only the best Superman comic ever written but probably the best comic ever written. The idea I think that most writer's don't utilize enough is the one that truly unique. Yeah Superman is really powerful but it's the fact that if he weren't human per se he wouldn't have his power the same thing that makes him superman is what makes him human, it's the earth. If he hadn't grown up there he would have a different culture code of ethics and sense of self. It is his ability to believe in human ingenuity hat is his true power, his ability to be what he knows the world needs. He unlike most alien hero4es, grew up here, he knows nothing else, he knows nothing of Krypton it's not like you miss a world you don't know. He is a human, through and through and time and time again I'd rather see him do that, just be human. I do not think that a walk across America will give him a proper world view nor give him humanity. He is human, he doesn't have to try, he's never been anything else. This is what sets him apart. On another note, what do you think of other Kryptonians being around? The Superman family and such. Most people have mixed feelings, that it's either a great idea, or that it makes him less special.Your take?

Aris: Actually he has been longing for something else. Some connection to his people. And that was the heart of what the last year of Super titles was about. And he learned, as JMS noted that some times want you want isn't what you need. So now we may find that after that let down. He needs to get his head together.
I think Morrison's All-star book was great. GREAT. But you can't have that in a capes super-hero adventure universe. Which was why it works pefectly in a vacume. What I believe is core to Superman is what he is to us and by his comic book world. The greatest of all heroes. He really hasn't been that for a while. He has essentially be another guy amoung hundreds of other DC characters with simliar scale and power with a blue body suit and red cape.
He should be more then that. Joe Kelly and Mahnke did a great story in issue 675? was that it? Where he faced off against a group like the Authority. Gave you a great sense of who and what Superman is.
Just to add.
I do believe JMS wants to re-establish that Supes is the first among equals. Which is the point of Grounded and reconnecting the wonder and sense of awe supes has lacked for a while.

Xylon:I feel like these are important things, but in the end krypton is a far off idea and if it wasn't for the recent story line he wouldn't long for it. I like a scientific genius who shows all of the qualities that Superman is supposed to. I like the idea of science hero Superman. What do you think of the superfamily?

Aris:Even sci-fi is just a different set of sensibilities being applied to a character who was really born of the power fantasies of ethnic kids from the tenements of the big city in the depression era.

The Superman Family. I love it. Bring back the Super pets!!! Seriously I think Superboy and Supergirl can carry their own title, and teh current incarnations are rich characters that add to the Superman mythos. I love the idea that Conner is a conflicted kid trying to find his own way with the weight of what he is constantly a part of him. he has a lot to live up to. I like Gates Supergirl too

Xylon:I think A super pets mini could hold water, probably not an ongoing but in truth those guys have a lot of stories. As far as Connor goes i think it's really funny because he is half human half kryptonian and yet his two fathers are opposite types of people than their species usually entails. Supergirl is nice, i wish she did more with who she is. If you could write a superman story, what do you think we haven't seen done well or enough? what would you do with the character?

Aris: Me? I would go back to basics I guess. no high cpnce[t stuff,but something i think is essential. single issue stories loosely held together by the meta idea that no one else but Superman could stop these menaces. And They would be huge menaces or villains executing mega plots. All ecomposing in scope.
And the key would be to show that Supes is honorable, smart AND powerful. Not just Powerful.
I would do a Composite Superman story. Ultra the multi-alien, Luthor, Bizarro, Kalibak, Black Adam, magic, JLA.
Lol. I have a story I always wanted to do. But Johns kinda did it with Conner. But i think I could still swing it. clone story. And of course one with the big cheese.
I would have to leave the brain surgery to Morrison and re-invisioning to Johns. But yeah. Mostly big action stories.
you?

Xylon: I would want a lot more cosmic stories, i would have to do atleast one legion story, i always had this idea of picking up on the idea that cosmic boy will one day be the 31st century superman, and i would want to do that story. And i always want some semblance of a him keeping in check his humanity, i want to do a one shot, where when ever he has to calm down and begin being Clark again he drops from a cliff just letting himself feel freefall . I would even like to develop Clark more, if anything he is the one guy who doesn't need to be a completely different person in his secret id. Any thing else you would like to cover?

Aris: I wouldnt touch the Legion. I like the idea that he hung out with them as a teen. Although if I could think of an epic enough story I wouldn't mind. I am a huge Legion fan as well.
I think as aI mention above I would like to do a long run if I had my wish. And really establish the scale of types of things he does issue by issue. And every once and a while add an exclamation point to it by big large scale mega crisises.
I think one group of villains that would be part of a mega0event I want to do with Supes as the lead vis-a-vie the JLA would be the Extremists. Extreme Crisis. lol. And possibly a Supermen story, at least one per year where all the Supermen of dirrerent Earths get together and go on a multiverse adventure of some sort making sure the literary universe the DCU is safe. Lol. As if i could ever channel Morrison. I aint that smart.

Xylon: I think it would be kuul to have story where mon-el is eartj's liason to the future and superman communicates to brainiac 5 through him. But yeah supes and cosmic boy together would be my only real legion story. I think a multiversal story would be great. (i'm so looking forward to Multiversity). that reminds me! Elseworld superman story, brainstorm some cool takes.

Aris: I never liked takes on characters where the big idea of Elseworlds is simply what if he was a Vampire? Or Robot?
I liked Millar's Red Son. So if you are going to do one you need to roll with it. So if Supes is a Nazi you have to have the characters buy in to the iedeology completely. Using that as a starting point. Make him a Nazi without redemption. He wins WWII. And its the modern era now. He is a little older and his children. Conner and Kara. Are buying into Socialism and the works from previous generations and lead a rebellion against dad.

Xylon: Haha very nice. Liberty files was good about that. I would love to do a story where Kal-El lands in England during the eighteen hundreds and is adopted by Nikola Tesla then leading to huge push towards the future between Tesla and Kal's minds and Kal's capabilities it brings all advancement a hundred years ahead of actual history. He lives for a very long time when he ends up going into a futuristic energy war with Lex Luthor very much in the way that Tesla and Edison did.

Aris: That sounds awesome. I would buy that!

Xylon: Alright guys that wraps up our first post. Comment, Follow, Tweet it, and most of all tell us what you think we could do here differently or better, any and all ideas are welcome. And also who or what do you guys think we should cover next week. Cheers everyone!