Wednesday, July 14, 2010

Lets talk about Death baby....


Xylon: Welcome back everyone we decided to capitalize on the discussion of Death of The Endless. Disclaimer: I am a sandman fanatic, to such a level where I did a 3D project on sandman when I was in seventh grade. And seeing as she will be in Paul Cornell's Action Comics very soon our friend Jon suggested we talk about her. Haha what's weird is that going into this without going into sandman is the hardest thing for me to do ever, it's like writing about Rorshach without writing about Watchmen. I love sandman so much and I'm inlove with death. Did you like her character? Her first story with Urania Blackwell really throws you into what the endless are so much more than sandman's first story really.

Aris: I love the character as she appeared in Sandman. I did not read the Death series. I think there is a lot of potential with the Endless in the DCU. And if used wisely could play a very interesting and personal part of the story Cornell is crafting. I think he is reconstructing Luthor. And now that he has a fascination both personal and scientific for the power of the Black Lantern Death seems an interesting character to put in the story for sure.

I like the idea that the continuity counts in her Vertigo persona as well. By their very nature the Endless should be able to move between worlds and be in all types of stories with out blowing the minds of fans.

Xylon: What most people don't realize is that vertigo is a dc setting just an imprint for other standards. Constantine hangs out with Zatanna, books of magic went from sand man to Abrakadabra from flash's rogues gallery, sandman had superman and batman at his funeral and in his first story interacted with Martian Manhunter and mister miracle. The world is the same it's just a different set of standards for the reader where as marvel max is different. And there are vertigo books outside of regular DCU like the Invisibles and American Virgin but sandman is not like that. And before we go into what she does for Luthor what does she do for the universe as a whole. when she was introduced she helped someone die who did not know how, it was a story of death as release rather than loss, and i liked how Gaiman showed the many ways death can be existent. you?

Aris: yeah. that was great. But regarding vertigo. For the most part until recently that doorway between worlds or "standards" has been one way. And maybe not the exact iteration of the character at large in the DCU. Or in the case of Supes and Bats. Symbolic.

Death has been written by Gaiman with an interesting personality. I want to see what Cornell brings to her and how the interaction with Luthor works in his story.

Is she connected to Nekron? Does she approve of Nekron? If not why give him power in her domain? What happens when Luthor tries to take any part of that power?

Obviously Luthor won't die.








Xylon: I think maybe the coolest way to write Luthor meeting death would be for him to realize a certain energy pattern occurring shortly after someones death and he sets up happy accidents in the lab for him to be able to pinpoint and observe the phenomena but then realizes it's her. Luthor won't die but clearly she won't approve of death, her scale of death is much larger than Nekrons, in endless nights (great book if any of you have never read it) during dreams story which coincidentally involves the creating of the GreenLanterns powers, she is feared by the avatars of the stars and all things alike, she is the death of anything and everything not just organisms. She closes the door on destiny and then the universe itself when Tim meets her in Books of Magic. And as far as her approval goes, Nekron is the doctor destiny to her dream. He is someone with a fraction f her power that should not exist. what do you think of her showing up elsewhere as someone that people have seen, Deadman has met her, I'm sure.

Aris: Yes. Death..the Endless are power of a different type as well as scale. They are old eternal things...Death herself may not even notice Nekron. But if you read Blackest Night you know that as Johns intended, Nekron represents the primordial essence of Death. Death herself being that personification should make for interesting interaction. I mean if you follow the thread leading from the Black Rings, to Nekron, they should lead to Death.

I think no matter what her appearance she needs to be handled with care. Or she will become a cartoon of herself in the DCU. I trust Cornell and Woods.

I have been critical of Finch's work at DC so far. But this cover for Action Comics is really good.

Xylon: Haha agreed. Gaiman apparently approves of Cornell doing this and that's all i need. Have you read Endless Nights? Because in that same story i mentioned earlier there was a moment that may have went over some people's heads, it was in the background but it involved a conversation between Krypton's sun, Rao and Despair (the first one not the second one which is the only time we ever see the first despair) and she says that it would be tragically beautiful he created a completely unstable planet allowing one single being to escape from the planet before it's demise therefore creating the perfect portrait of despair within the survivor. This of course being an allusion to Kal-El but i thought I might mention it and how you think death could work in books across DCU as a whole as well as the other endless.

Aris: OH. I need to read that now. I have too. That sounds really great.

I think if Death or any of the Endless are used sparingly it should be fine. Not as a gimmick of course. Most of the Vertigo characters can have analogues. You know different versions. Meaning. The Constantine of the Vertigo-verse is not the same one in the DCU> But the Endless are the Endless all the time.



Xylon: I think Constantine can be Constantine all of the time, but just don't tell his grittier stories there, Shade the changing man is coming back and I think it would be great if we saw Tim be in regular dc books. I think it would be cool to see desire make mischief with different couples trying to split them up and such.



Aris: To Me, Vertigo and the DCU are two different places. Super heroes don't really work in the same in the Vertigo universe. And in the DCU the Vertigo characters are constrained by the four color capes cliches. Its like what Morrison was doing with Earth 2(?3) where on the Crime Syndicate Earth GOOD always loses. There is something on a metaphysical conceptual level that is different. You called it "standards". But it is something fundamental to the storytelling.

To be honest as much as possible for me it is better to keep them separate.The Constantine of the Vertigo-verse can't really be the same Constantine in the DCU.

Xylon: That's makes it confusing i mean the dc is not a grand place to be, Dr. Light did some messed up shit that you would have normally only seen in a vertigo story during identity crisis.




Aris: I don't see why it would confusing. It's comics. It's whatever the writer wants it to be. I accept 52 different versions of almost every character..including versions of the same character from the same universe no problem...why not two Constantines. I am not sure I want him schtupping Zantana from behind is Asmodeus bathroom any part of DCU continuity.

It should be part of the Vertico standard. The Endless are a different type of character. The exist outside the normal DC "multiversity" Like the Source. There is only one Source. And there should only be one group of New Gods. There should not be 52 different Darkseids or Orions.

Xylon: I want him shtupping Zatanna. Just saying. Agreed on all counts. I love how Death is completely revered by anyone who has power and never frightens those who are humble their are those that wouldn't give her a second look. One of my favorite stories with her is more of a sandman story, where sandman asks her not to make the man in the bar die, and so she doesn't let him die, and Morpheus and him meet every hundred years. What's great is that she completely treats her brother swishes as no problem i hate it when some one escapes death and it "unsettles the balance of things" she can do what she likes. and it is written.

Aris: Yes that is awesome use of the character. It works well when some one is capable of working with the characters at the level Gaiman can. Over use and too many hands can destroy that. And give the Endless a more pedestrian "standard" then what has been laid out by the likes of more thoughtful uses of the character.

Once some one makes them seem mundane it will do irreparable damage.

Xylon: I just went through some of my dream story notes ( i keep notes of the stories i wanna tell someday) and i found an old story i would only ever dream of writing unless Gaiman gave me expressed permission. But it was once mentioned that Destruction is the creator of most processes in the universe (particularly fusion). So i wanted to tell a story where destruction, Daniel and death helped destroy delirium to the point where she became delight again. i always loved the cynical idea that the universe has no delight, only delirium instead. So i want to see the return of delight. I think this has become a large endless discussion (get it). I like it.

Aris: I like that a lot man. You should probably get scripts ready for cons.

Xylon: I am working on it man. Alright guys this has been a very great discussion I think and things touched on here will be touched on so much further when we eventually do a Dream post. Alright see you guys next time!
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